13 January 2007 @ 01:49 am
Anti-IchiHime Refutation #1  
Mmm, wanky post. Anyway, like I was talking about earlier, I'm slowly going through arguments against Ichigo/Orihime and refuting them. This is the first one. Before anyone gets any items of clothing into knots over it, though, please note that nowhere in this do I insist that IchiHime is inevitable and everyone must support it. I simply take down a faulty argument against it. That's why it's not going into the main body of the IchiHime essay when I revise it.

Anyway, here's the argument I'll be dealing with tonight:

Ichigo's feelings for Orihime haven't developed in over 250 chapters! She's still just a friend to him!

The answer to this one is simple: yes, they have. Because she wasn't always a friend to him.

"Are you close?" Rukia asks Ichigo in chapter 3, referring to his relationship with Orihime. Ichigo waffles on this. From his answers, we can gather that he might sort of maybe consider Orihime "close" because of their shared past, but he specifically does not call her a friend. She's best friends with Tatsuki. She's a classmate. He doesn't really know her.

Their experience in the first arc brings them closer, especially once Ichigo realizes that Orihime remembers it and has gained powers. We see the result of that development when Orihime is able to cheer Ichigo up and convince him that going to Soul Society to rescue Rukia is the right thing to do.

We see some more interesting development in the early SS arc, when Ichigo chews Yoruichi out for upsetting Orihime. He doesn't get all D:< at her when she claws Orihime; instead, his anger comes when she yells at her. Ichigo has previously shown no hesitation in protecting people physically by this point, but protecting people's feelings? That's pretty new, and it's another step in the development of his relationship with Orihime.

After his fight with Byakuya, Ichigo gives Orihime a tender look as he realizes how much she's done for his sake (even if he doesn't understand the reason yet; give him a break, he's dense). Then he thanks her--showing that he is now capable of appreciating her.

Shortly after Rukia is rescued, Ichigo and Orihime work together to find her. He is now capable of treating her as an equal when the situation calls for it.

In the start of the Vaizard arc, we see that Ichigo, Chad, and Orihime fight Hollows together. In other words, after the SS arc, Orihime is now on a level similar to Chad, who has been Ichigo's friend for years.

We then see him attempt to protect her and do (in his opinion) a lousy job of it. This upsets him enough to make him miserable until Rukia comes and snaps him out of it. After she does so, the first thing she does is make him apologize to Orihime, which indicates that his relationship with Orihime has developed to the point where Rukia notices its importance.

Finally, upon hearing of her capture, Ichigo declares Orihime nakama--not just a friend but a close friend, a member of his circle of friends, a partner, and someone on the level of Tatsuki or Chad, both of whom he has known for years.

Let's summarize:

In the mini-arcs leading up to the SS arc, in Ichigo's eyes, Orihime goes from "girl I have a shared history with but don't really know" to "someone I want to protect who is capable of influencing my thoughts and beliefs in a positive way" (with her encouragement of his rescue of Rukia).

During the SS arc, despite their lack of interaction, in Ichigo's eyes, Orihime goes from "someone I want to protect who is capable of influencing my thoughts and beliefs in a positive way" to "someone I appreciate, want to protect both physically and emotionally, and will work side by side with."

Post-SS arc, in Ichigo's eyes, Orihime finally transforms from "someone I appreciate, want to protect both physically and emotionally, and will work side by side with" into "nakama that I must protect and that other people in my life recognize the importance of to me."

So yes, Orihime has not yet explicitly developed past "important friend" for Ichigo (although she's always had the additional bonus of that history with him). However, there has been plenty of development to their relationship, and there's no reason that it would be somehow poor writing or unrealistic for its future development to take on a romantic edge.

Corollary to this argument: Ichigo's feelings for Orihime haven't developed since the Soul Society arc!

Well, since the SS arc, Orihime has explicitly made the leap to nakama or "friend/comrade." However, it's kind of unreasonable to expect more than that during that time frame. Let's look at what actually happened during the time in question:

1) Ichigo & co get home. Ichigo, Chad, and Orihime briefly work together.
2) Orihime, Chad, and Tatsuki get hurt fighting Arrancar.
3) Ichigo angsts over his failure to protect Orihime and avoids actually interacting with her because of this angst.
4) Rukia kicks Ichigo out of his funk, forces him to apologize to Orihime. (Perhaps this experience is what makes him realize that Orihime is nakama to him?)
5) The other shinigami who arrived with Rukia hustle Ichigo & co into battles against the Arrancar.
6) Rukia gets injured; Ichigo goes to train.
7) Rukia and Orihime "train" together in Soul Society; Ichigo is busy training with the Vaizards.
8) Orihime, on her way back to the mortal world, gets captured.

This doesn't exactly give Ichigo much time to get closer to Orihime. So it's unreasonable to expect him to have had tons of epiphanies about her since the Soul Society arc.
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Chira: thinkthink[info]halcyonjazz on January 13th, 2007 07:12 am (UTC)
Great argument! Succint, to the point, and a great conclusion. Though: I just want to point out that 'nakama' doesn't necessarily mean 'important person'. That is better worded as 'taisetsu na hito'. 'Nakama' means 'friend', but more like 'comrade' or 'ally'. Someone you'd consider close to your circle or an equal, that type of deal.
ZERO :: the Fool: hmm[info]annwyd on January 13th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC)
Thanks! I'm trying to be fairly short and to-the-point with these.

And huh, I didn't know the exact translation of "nakama," but I kept seeing it tossed around as the equivalent of "important person." Well, now I know! I'll make some edits. It's interesting to know that it carries connotations of equality, though.
Chira: blahblahblah[info]halcyonjazz on January 13th, 2007 07:24 am (UTC)
Well... it's one of those things that could be translated as 'important person', becayuse nakama is a word that is used in high regard. But it's more commonly translated as 'friend' because 'important person' is making the connotation too literal, if that makes sense? Especially when 'important person' is much better worded as something else (which is why, like, Naruto and Sasuke proclaiming each other are special to the other was such a big deal, because it was tht blatant of wording).
ZERO :: the Fool: !!![info]annwyd on January 13th, 2007 07:29 am (UTC)
Okay, I see. So because it's an Important Word, people occasionally translate it as Important Person, even though other translations suit it better. Got it!
Maus: Excellent![info]furrymouse on January 13th, 2007 07:28 am (UTC)
Very well thought out... Now, try tackling the relationship angles in Nana...
ZERO :: the Fool: huh?[info]annwyd on January 13th, 2007 07:29 am (UTC)
Thanks. Unfortunately, I'm not into NANA, but maybe someday. :)
Maus: Trash Heap[info]furrymouse on January 13th, 2007 08:53 am (UTC)
Ah, I like it as I've always been a hopeless Shojo fan. I have up thru chapter 67 translated, if you ever want to get into it...
cuddlyfluff: pic#66461309[info]cuddlyfluff on January 23rd, 2008 06:44 am (UTC)
I completely agree! NANA is one of the greatest anime and manga I have ever read!
(^3^)/
cuddlyfluff[info]cuddlyfluff on January 23rd, 2008 06:42 am (UTC)
I really recommend NANA to all BLEACH fans! Ichihime is my favorite couple and BLAEACH is one of my two favorite anime including NANA! BTW GREAT ARGUMENT!!!
(^3^)/
the light in me will guide you home: [RukiHime] like sunshine[info]homelight on January 13th, 2007 07:59 am (UTC)
I give this 5 stars RukiHimes ♥. Awesome knocking down of a big fandom misconception-people seem to think that Ichigo's still at square 1 with Orihime (though I grant, that the development here is more subtle than the Really Big Announcements of friendship people are used to in shounen XDDD).
ZERO :: the Fool: Orihime[info]annwyd on January 13th, 2007 08:30 am (UTC)
I see you noticed my little quotes around "train" there. 8D

Thanks, though. I think next I'll address the argument of "Ichigo was way more passionate about saving Rukia in the SS arc than he is about saving Orihime in the HM arc!" aka "way to miss the point of the SS arc." D:
Kerochan no Miko: iron chef[info]tiassa on January 13th, 2007 02:17 pm (UTC)
The subtlety is probably why people think it's not there...a depressingly large amount of people don't think about what they're reading and only see stuff if they're hit over the head with it. :P
Nec timeo Nec Sperno[info]muffytaj on January 13th, 2007 11:41 am (UTC)
There are people that think they are the same before SS arc as after? That's crazy! I don't even like the pairing romantically, and it's still bloody obvious they have become very important to each other. All of the SS rescue team has (except maybe Ishida-Chad link)

Hmmm... Ishida-Chad link... *ponders* That would be... interesting.
ZERO :: the Fool: whatever[info]annwyd on January 13th, 2007 04:18 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, people are not content to go "I don't like IchiHime, I like X pairing better because of (Y thing about X pairing that makes it more interesting to them)," they have to invent dumb things to say about IchiHime. :P That's what shipwars are all about, woo.
Fatty Mcbaldenwheezy P.H.D.: Run Hime[info]anemoneoflight on March 20th, 2008 05:43 am (UTC)
Hello there random person here :D

I just want to thank you for the great refutation. Just marvelous. IchiHime is my OTP & it saddens me that people bash it so easily. Ichigo & Orihime have known each other for a while, though they might noe have had a ton of moments. The ones they did share were special. Ichigo is most certainly taking notice of Hime. Again thank you for this! ^^
Lev Wright[info]levwright on July 11th, 2008 03:20 pm (UTC)
I must say unrequited love sucks. If Tite Kubo makes that happen I want to storm into his office and demand a refund ...oh never mind. Anyway, I like your argument, it's good! I really am an IchiHime fan and hate to see if Rukia and Ichigo end up with him...I mean I think they're more like siblings, don't you?
Fatty Mcbaldenwheezy P.H.D.: I'll never leave you hanging love {H}[info]anemoneoflight on July 14th, 2008 05:35 am (UTC)
It certainly does. Orihime's feelings for Ichigo is canon therefore they must be resolved. Not only that be he treats Orihime different than he does everyone else. I don;t think he's secretly in love with her but he can come to realize how she feels and reciprocate her feelings. Bleach isn't over yet so theres not telling what might happen! xD And thank you~! Yes, Ichigo and Rukia are close but they don't necessarily have to be intimate or romantic feelings.

I don't have very many Ichihime friends and I poked around your journal and saw that you like Axel, Disney and lots of other neat stuff that I myself am into. What I mean to ask is if I may friend you because I think we'd really get along well. ^^
(Anonymous) on January 22nd, 2009 07:53 am (UTC)
just butting in...
i was reading everyone's comments and it made me think. i want ichigo and orihime to end up together. i think rukia is more like a big sister to him since she is always able to knock some sense into him plus i think renji is in love with rukia and rukia is being dense about it. if rukia ends up with ichigo then poor renji will end up alone
(Anonymous) on June 14th, 2009 02:51 am (UTC)
ichihime
i agree with you 100%!
(Anonymous) on June 14th, 2009 02:57 am (UTC)
ichihime
you should also mention that in trying to save orihime, ichigo has died twice. the first time, orihime and grimjow bring him back to life. the second time, he dies trying to protect orihime and ishida. when ishida fails to save her, orihime cry's out to ichigo to save her. and even though hes dead, he still hears her crying and comes back to life as a realy powerful hollow to save her. he then goes berserk on the arancar and kills him, then nearly kills ishida because he thinks he's a threat to orihime. but orihime tells him to stop and he does. this is proof enough that there is something going on between them. go ichihime! :p
(Anonymous) on August 2nd, 2009 08:01 pm (UTC)
ichihime
Dude thank you so much! Everyone i know is a IchiRuki and i thought "Maybe Ichigo and Rukia will be together..." This made me sad, then i read your argument and it brought faith in me again! Good argument! I can see Ichigo going with Rukia but i would think of it more as a sibling thing. They fight and hit eachother, some relationship that would be? lol But i am deffinatly hoping for Orhime and ichigo to be togther :P

Go ichihime!!! <3